From: Yutaka.Matsumoto@sun.co.jp (MATSUMOTO Yutaka - Sun JTC)
Real-Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 15:31:21 JST
Subject: [infotalk,01582] Re: Mosaic license?
Message-Id: <9407150631.AA22872@katsu.Japan.Sun.COM>
>たかだです。ま、こんなとこで話してても意味ないが、
たしかに。...
>>Commercial use is generally meant to include selling NCSA Mosaic or a
>>derivative product incorporating NCSA Mosaic or distributing NCSA Mosaic to
>>be used with or in support of a product that someone is selling. The way
>
>この "is meant to include ..." っていうのは、「のみ」とは訳せないような
うーむ、こーいうのが含まれますといってるだけかもしれませんね。
>>asis の Mosaic binary を ftp してきて使うぶんには、
>>なにも問題ないのではないかと思いますが？
>
>この「使うぶん」っつーのも微妙で、正確には「insideで使うぶん」ですよね。
ふむふむ。
>> When we say that "internal business use" is allowed,
>> this means that a company may use NCSA Mosaic inside the company, and only
>> inside the company, without charge.
で、その後に
|However, as soon as NCSA Mosaic is
|distributed outside of the company, say to clients or partners, licensing
|is required.
とあるから、company から distribute されたものでなければよいとか。??
うーむ、たしかにあいまいな記述ですよね。
>大体、UIも、定義を曖昧にしておきながら、唐突に「それは商用利用だ」と
>か言ってくるから(伝聞)、よ〜分からんのだよな。その割にライセンス窓口
>の反応は悪いし。ぶ〜。
たしかに。;-(
だれか、日本でライセンスの窓口やらないかな？ (^ ^;;)
# やっぱり UI って名前がよくないんでは？ :-p
-- taka@Japan.Sun.COM
From: Maybe TABOO <y-koga@ccs.mt.nec.co.jp>
Real-Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 15:33:55 +0900
Subject: [infotalk,01581] Re: Mosaic license?
Message-Id: <199407150633.PAA21896@sple191.ccs.mt.nec.co.jp>
From: TAKADA Toshihiro <takada@palomine.stanford.edu>
Subject: [infotalk,01580] Re: Mosaic license?
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 15:04:04 +0900
> > と言われると、TVでMosaicで情報引いてるのを見せるのはどうなんだろう、
> 雑誌とか本とかも、最近この手のが渦巻いてるっすからね〜。どうなんだろ。
雑誌の場合 Mosaic を載せることよりもそこで載せているページの著作
権の方が問題になりそうですね。ちゃんと許可取ってるのかな？
> ＃ そうか、深くハマらなければよいのか。:-b
そう思うけどそうはいかないのが会社なんだなぁ…と近頃思う。
----
こがよういちろう＠ＮＥＣ オープン研
y-koga@ccs.mt.nec.co.jp
From: TAKADA Toshihiro <takada@palomine.stanford.edu>
Real-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 23:00:50 -0700
Subject: [infotalk,01580] Re: Mosaic license?
Message-Id: <199407150600.XAA04661@palomine.stanford.edu>
たかだです。ま、こんなとこで話してても意味ないが、
In [infotalk,01577]:
>>爆発するのは喜ばしいことですが、商用ライセンスなしでそ〜ゆ〜ことっ
>>て出来るのかなぁ。
>うーん、NCSA がライセンスを必要とするのは、再配布に関してのみ
>なのではないのでしょうか？
わし、こ〜ゆ〜英語良く分からんっすが、
>Commercial use is generally meant to include selling NCSA Mosaic or a
>derivative product incorporating NCSA Mosaic or distributing NCSA Mosaic to
>be used with or in support of a product that someone is selling. The way
この "is meant to include ..." っていうのは、「のみ」とは訳せないような
気がするっすが。
>asis の Mosaic binary を ftp してきて使うぶんには、
>なにも問題ないのではないかと思いますが？
この「使うぶん」っつーのも微妙で、正確には「insideで使うぶん」ですよね。
> When we say that "internal business use" is allowed,
> this means that a company may use NCSA Mosaic inside the company, and only
> inside the company, without charge.
In [infotalk,01576]:
> と言われると、TVでMosaicで情報引いてるのを見せるのはどうなんだろう、
雑誌とか本とかも、最近この手のが渦巻いてるっすからね〜。どうなんだろ。
--------
大体、UIも、定義を曖昧にしておきながら、唐突に「それは商用利用だ」と
か言ってくるから(伝聞)、よ〜分からんのだよな。その割にライセンス窓口
の反応は悪いし。ぶ〜。
＃ そうか、深くハマらなければよいのか。:-b
========================================================================
TAKADA Toshihiro
NTT Basic Research Labs. E-mail: takada@seraph.ntt.JP
URL: <http://www.ntt.jp/people/takada/>
Stanford University E-mail: takada@bodega.Stanford.EDU
URL: <http://bodega.stanford.edu:8080/people/takada/>
========================================================================
From: ysato@etl.go.jp (Yutaka Sato 佐藤豊)
Real-Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 13:56:30 JST
Subject: [infotalk,01579] Re: DeleGate1.2.10
Message-Id: <k9XI-.ysato@etl.go.jp>
On 07/15/94(10:23) you Ryoichi Hajima <hajima@crimson.gen.u-tokyo.ac.jp> wrote
in <199407150123.KAA12129@tanelorn.gen.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
|羽島＠東大です。
|
|In <infotalk:01562>
|"MURAYAMA Fumitaka 村山文孝 <umura@nn.solan.chubu.ac.jp> "さん:
|><> その後さらに DeleGateから幾つかバグが取れて、現在の版は 1.2.10となり
|
|> > RELIABLE=157.110.0.0/@B
|>
|> として学内からのアクセスに制限をかけようとしているのですが、学
|> 外からのアクセスに対して答えてしまいます。どこがいけないのでし
|> ょうか？
|># ソースを見る限りでは大丈夫なような気もしたのですが・・・。
|
|RESTRICT=all は、入れてますか？
そうですね、これを引数に加えていただければ良いと思います。
RELIABLEの検査対象は、RESTRICTに指定したプロトコルだけで、
RESTRICTのデフォルトはtelnet,ftpだけです。allを指定すれば
全てのプロトコルが検査対象になります。
|これで３０分程はまった (^_^;
もうしわけない(^_^;;;
考えてみれば、xxxx-SPECIALISTではRESTRICTしたいのはxxxxに決まって
ます。SERVER=xxxx://... RELIABLE=... が指定されていたら、自動的に
RESTRICT=xxxx とするよう、1.2.11 で修正したいと思います。
@ @
┰── ─┰─ ┰ ／／＼^^ ( - )
┠─++佐藤＠ＥＴＬ ／ 876m＼ _< >_
┸── ┸ ┸────────────────────────────┘
From: miura@syrinx.ntt.jp (MIURA Fumiaki)
Real-Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 13:50:04 +0900
Subject: [infotalk,01578] Re: Mosaic license?
Message-Id: <9407150450.AA17687@amie.ntt.jp>
三浦@NTTです。別に法律の専門家でも何でもないんですが。
高田> 別にその会社がMosaicで商売してる訳ではないと思うけど、企業の宣伝活
高田> 動に使うことが、無料で認められている "internal business purposes"
高田> かどうかっつーのは、かなり灰色だと思うけど...
はだ> TVでMosaicで情報引いてるのを見せるのはどうなんだろう、
1. 静観して広まるのを待つ(警告は続ける)
2. 金をとれそうな所が*深く*はまるのを待つ
3. そこを訴える
これは民事訴訟のごく普通の作戦だと思います。
民事訴訟は高額を確実に得るのが目標ですから。
--
▽R← 三浦史光 X;M
R←+/,(?1↑ρM)/M←X≠.- 運命 X▽
From: Yutaka.Matsumoto@sun.co.jp (MATSUMOTO Yutaka - Sun JTC)
Real-Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 13:40:14 JST
Subject: [infotalk,01577] Re: Mosaic license?
Message-Id: <9407150440.AA21561@katsu.Japan.Sun.COM>
>たかだです。ごぶさたしてます。
ども、こんにちは。
>In article <9407061159.AA24857@katsu.Japan.Sun.COM> you write:
>># 今日は、幕張の UNIX COSMOS の会場で、Mosaic が爆発していました。(^ ^;;)
>
>爆発するのは喜ばしいことですが、商用ライセンスなしでそ〜ゆ〜ことっ
>て出来るのかなぁ。
うーん、NCSA がライセンスを必要とするのは、再配布に関してのみ
なのではないのでしょうか？
>別にその会社がMosaicで商売してる訳ではないと思うけど、企業の宣伝活
Mosaic を売って商売していると問題な訳ですよね。
^^^^^^
>動に使うことが、無料で認められている "internal business purposes"
>かどうかっつーのは、かなり灰色だと思うけど...
asis の Mosaic binary を ftp してきて使うぶんには、
なにも問題ないのではないかと思いますが？
-- taka@Japan.Sun.COM
# 法律に詳しい方、この FAQ 読んでコメントしていただけますか？
# ちょっと長いですが、参考のためつけておきます。
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequently Asked Questions about Using and Licensing NCSA Mosaic
May 25,1994
NCSA Mosaic software is copyrighted by the University of Illinois. NCSA
Mosaic is free for individual use. In addition, NCSA licenses the source
code, binaries and documentation for redistribution and commercial
purposes. Since the software is "free with copyright" and not public
domain, freeware or shareware, questions often arise about its use. To
answer as many of these questions as possible, further explanation of the
authorized distribution of the software and derivative products is provided
in this FAQ. In the discussion below, anyone who is using NCSA Mosaic has
necessarily agreed to the terms of its use, and hence has been licensed to
use NCSA Mosaic, and is sometimes referred to as "Licensee."
Copyright:
The NCSA Mosaic copyright allows the use of the binaries (all three
platforms) and source (X Windows only) for academic, research and internal
business purposes, without charge; so you may use NCSA Mosaic free under
these circumstances. When we say that "internal business use" is allowed,
this means that a company may use NCSA Mosaic inside the company, and only
inside the company, without charge. However, as soon as NCSA Mosaic is
distributed outside of the company, say to clients or partners, licensing
is required. The source code for the Microsoft Windows and Macintosh
versions are available only for academic use only, except through
commercial licensing.
Commercial use is generally meant to include selling NCSA Mosaic or a
derivative product incorporating NCSA Mosaic or distributing NCSA Mosaic to
be used with or in support of a product that someone is selling. The way
this is expressed in the copyright statement is: "Commercial use includes
(1) integration of all or part of the source code into a product for sale
or license by or on behalf of Licensee to third parties, or (2)
distribution of the binary code or source code to third parties that need
it to utilize a commercial product sold or licensed by or on behalf of
Licensee."
For those who are using NCSA Mosaic for non-commercial purposes, such as
university research, and have access to the source, the following applies:
"Licensee may make derivative works. However, if Licensee distributes any
derivative work based on or derived from the Software, then Licensee will
(1) notify NCSA regarding its distributing of the derivative work, and (2)
clearly notify users that such derivative work is a modified version and
not the original NCSA Mosaic distributed by the UI." As a result of this
copyright restriction, if any product, including a free one like a research
version or derivative of NCSA Mosaic, is created using NCSA Mosaic source
code and that product is released to other users, then the creator of the
product must both (1) notify NCSA and, (2) let the users know that the
product is a derivative and not the original NCSA Mosaic. NCSA cannot
support derivative products and users must be made aware of the distinction
between the original NCSA Mosaic and a product created by someone else.
Any derivative product is also, of course, subject to the restrictions of
the copyright, including distribution and use limitations.
The binaries for all three platforms (Macintosh, MSWindows, and X Windows)
and the source for the X Windows version are available from the NCSA ftp
server (ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu), and NCSA will continue to ensure that future
upgrades to NCSA Mosaic will be accessible on the ftp. The source code for
the Macintosh and Microsoft Windows versions are available only to academic
institutions through individual application to NCSA. (See the section
"Application for Microsoft Windows and Macintosh Source Code" below for
further information).
Application for Microsoft Windows and Macintosh Source Code:
NCSA Mosaic is being licensed to commercial companies to provide resources
for future development. As a result, NCSA and the University of Illinois
have decided to restrict the distribution of the source code for the
Microsoft Windows and Macintosh platforms of NCSA Mosaic. Generally, this
code will be available for university researchers only, and only by signed
agreement. The application form is available on ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu in the
subdirectory /PC/Mosaic/source and a copy of the form is included at the
close of this FAQ. Because NCSA must have a legal, original signature from
the applicant for the source code, the application form must be completed
and sent by U.S. Mail; any faxed or emailed requests will not be
considered. The application is then reviewed by NCSA staff, and, if the
intent for use is appropriate, the source will be made available to the
applicant for the accepted uses.
Examples of Uses of NCSA Mosaic That Require Licensing:
Obviously, any modification and/or redistribution of the source code for
any commercial purpose requires licensing. However, a number of questions
arise about the distribution of the binaries that are publicly available.
Below are some scenarios that may help in explaining the NCSA position on
this.
A commercial company could establish their own server, load the NCSA Mosaic
binaries onto that server and provide written instructions for downloading
the software from that server without licensing. However, any automatic
assistance for downloading and/or installing the software must be licensed.
The following question will help define where licensing should be pursued,
"Is the company providing a service that is installing NCSA Mosaic on
machines?" If the answer to this question is "yes", then licensing is
required. For example, a button that says "NCSA Mosaic is at this address"
which locates the address for the user does not require licensing; anything
further that assists the user in transferring the software to their
machine, or installing it, does require licensing. Hence, any script or
batch file designed to facilitate installation also requires licensing.
This may seem to be an arbitrary place to draw the line between free and
licensed distribution, but in an increasingly networked world, we had to
draw the line somewhere. If having NCSA Mosaic on the machines of their
clients, customers, or users with absolutely no hassle is important to the
company or organization, then they should be willing to pay for it. At the
same time, access to NCSA Mosaic is always available to everyone willing to
type out ftp commands.
Distribution of the public version binaries through such formats as
diskette and CD ROM requires licensing.
Examples of Uses of NCSA Mosaic That Do Not Require Licensing:
As explained above, the public version of NCSA Mosaic that is on the NCSA
ftp server may be placed on any server for downloading and users may be
notified of its presence there . For example, a commercial company could
establish a server at their site, load NCSA Mosaic from the NCSA ftp server
to their new server and direct customers to download the software from
their site rather than from the NCSA server. However, the company should
provide only written instructions for downloading from their site, as
automatic assistance for downloading and/or installing the software crosses
the line and requires licensing, as explained above.
Setting up a server to provide access to documents or a service to be
accessed through NCSA Mosaic does not require licensing of the client
software. However, redistribution of the Mosaic software by such document
or service providers is restricted. For example, the service provider
could not distribute the ftp version of the client software by diskette or
CD ROM to encourage users of the service. The service provider could,
however, as in the above example, provide written instructions for users to
download the software themselves from the NCSA server or from any other
location, but would have to license to go beyond that.
Procedure for Licensing NCSA Mosaic:
If interested in inquiring about licensing NCSA Mosaic from NCSA, contact
Jae Allen at the Software Development Group (jallen@NCSA.uiuc.edu).
1. Review this FAQ in detail before inquiring about licensing, as many
of the fundamental questions are answered in this document.
2. Provide a detailed, concise summary of the intent for use in an email
inquiry to facilitate the initial discussions. Be certain to include
your telephone number in the email.
3. A representative of SDG will call you to discuss any questions you
have about licensing that were not covered in the FAQ.
4. If licensing is required for the intended use, a draft copy of the
general license agreement will be emailed or faxed to you.
5. Appendix B of the draft includes a fee per copy table. Discounts
can be provided for volume licensing and guaranteed orders.
6. Review the agreement with your legal counsel.
7. Legal counsel from the University of Illinois and your company will
define a final agreement with the negotiated terms.
8. The document is routed for signatures.
9. The source is released to the company.
A variety of commercial companies have already licensed NCSA Mosaic. Any
of these companies could be approached for sub-licensing the product from
them. A list of those companies and their points of contact are available.
Points of Interest in the License Agreement:
1. The license allows one level of sub-licensing of the binaries, source
code and derivative products. For example, a licensing company can
sub-license the client software to another company, but is responsible
for collecting all fees due the University of Illinois from the
sub-licensee.
2. Any sub-licensee is subject to the same restrictions as is the
original licensee.
3. The software is available on a fee per copy basis.
4. The licensee can also license for rights to future upgrades of the
product.
5. The license is for client software only. No other licenses are
necessary for using the software. However, NCSA does not license
specific browsers called from NCSA Mosaic.
Support of NCSA Mosaic:
NCSA will continue to provide user support for the public version of the
client software located on the ftp server. NCSA cannot support any other
version of the product. In the future, NCSA technical support personnel
will be inquiring about the version of the software, and will not provide
support to any version except the official NCSA version of NCSA Mosaic.
---------------------------------
Mike Goode (mgoode@ncsa.uiuc.edu)
NCSA Mosaic License Specialist, Software Development Group
National Center for Supercomputing Applications (NCSA)
University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
217-244-0014, MC-476/152 CAB
From: Hisakazu Hada <hisaka-h@is.aist-nara.ac.jp>
Real-Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 13:24:10 +0900
Subject: [infotalk,01576] Re: Mosaic license?
Message-Id: <9407150424.AA02552@alpha237.aist-nara.ac.jp>
はだ＠奈良先端です。
From: TAKADA Toshihiro <takada@palomine.stanford.edu>
Subject: [infotalk,01573] Mosaic license?
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 13:00:06 +0900
>
> たかだです。ごぶさたしてます。
>
> ＃ ETV8で0.8秒ほど写ったのは確かに私です。(-_-;
>
> ごぶさたでいきなしこんなこと言ってあれなんですが...
>
> In article <9407061159.AA24857@katsu.Japan.Sun.COM> you write:
> ># 今日は、幕張の UNIX COSMOS の会場で、Mosaic が爆発していました。(^ ^;;)
>
> 爆発するのは喜ばしいことですが、商用ライセンスなしでそ〜ゆ〜ことっ
> て出来るのかなぁ。
>
> 別にその会社がMosaicで商売してる訳ではないと思うけど、企業の宣伝活
> 動に使うことが、無料で認められている "internal business purposes"
> かどうかっつーのは、かなり灰色だと思うけど...
>
> ＃ それを判断するのは、その会社の権利担当とUIと裁判所だから、私が
> ＃ どーこー言える問題ではないんだけれども。
と言われると、TVでMosaicで情報引いてるのを見せるのはどうなんだろう、
と疑問が湧きます。
TV局は映像見せることでまさに商売してるっすよね〜。
なぞだ。
From: sutoh@iis.u-tokyo.ac.jp (Taku Suto / 須藤拓)
Real-Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 13:14:52 +0900
Subject: [infotalk,01575] Re: MacWeb0.98
Message-Id: <9407150414.AA00964@manta.iis.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
須藤＠東大船舶海洋と申します。ここへははじめての投稿ですが、
macで日本語がちゃんと使えるwww browserがあったのがわかって
うれしいので。(sjisだけだけど) (^_^)(^_^)(^_^)(^_^)(^_^)
At 10:39 AM 94.7.15 +0900, IMAZU Hideyo wrote:
>私はちょっと前に macwebC0.98alpha を取ってきて使ってみたんですが、
>macwebC0.98alpha は、何もしなくても Shif JIS の漢字が表示できました。
Cのつくほうはcmapのリソースの128番がChinese8bitとなっていました。
よく知らないのですがこの128番を変換テーブルとして使うので
日本語も読めるのでしょう。CはChineseのことだと思います。
---
東大大学院船舶海洋工学専攻 生研浦研 tel,fax: 03(3479)4017
須藤 拓 (Suto Taku)
From: Tetsuya Okada <okayan@c-creators.co.jp>
Real-Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 13:12:41 +0900
Subject: [infotalk,01574] Re: MacWeb0.98
Message-Id: <9407150412.AA19863@cciss.c-creators.co.jp>
コンピュータークリエーターズの岡田です。
> Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 10:39:13 +0900
> From: himazu@isl.mei.co.jp (IMAZU Hideyo)
>
> 私はちょっと前に macwebC0.98alpha を取ってきて使ってみたんですが、
> macwebC0.98alpha は、何もしなくても Shif JIS の漢字が表示できました。
確かにフォントの変更だけで、表示できますね。
ますます気に入ってしまいました。
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| （株）コンピュータークリエーターズ 岡田 哲哉 |
| voice: 03-3312-9938 fax: 03-3312-9940 email: okayan@c-creators.co.jp |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: TAKADA Toshihiro <takada@palomine.stanford.edu>
Real-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 20:56:52 -0700
Subject: [infotalk,01573] Mosaic license?
Message-Id: <199407150356.UAA03968@palomine.stanford.edu>
たかだです。ごぶさたしてます。
＃ ETV8で0.8秒ほど写ったのは確かに私です。(-_-;
ごぶさたでいきなしこんなこと言ってあれなんですが...
In article <9407061159.AA24857@katsu.Japan.Sun.COM> you write:
># 今日は、幕張の UNIX COSMOS の会場で、Mosaic が爆発していました。(^ ^;;)
爆発するのは喜ばしいことですが、商用ライセンスなしでそ〜ゆ〜ことっ
て出来るのかなぁ。
別にその会社がMosaicで商売してる訳ではないと思うけど、企業の宣伝活
動に使うことが、無料で認められている "internal business purposes"
かどうかっつーのは、かなり灰色だと思うけど...
＃ それを判断するのは、その会社の権利担当とUIと裁判所だから、私が
＃ どーこー言える問題ではないんだけれども。
========================================================================
TAKADA Toshihiro
NTT Basic Research Labs. E-mail: takada@seraph.ntt.JP
URL: <http://www.ntt.jp/people/takada/>
Stanford University E-mail: takada@bodega.Stanford.EDU
URL: <http://bodega.stanford.edu:8080/people/takada/>
========================================================================
From: himazu@isl.mei.co.jp (IMAZU Hideyo)
Real-Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 10:38:56 +0900
Subject: [infotalk,01572] Re: MacWeb0.98
Message-Id: <199407150138.KAA01430@aria.isl.mei.co.jp>
>>>>> "岡田" == Tetsuya Okada <okayan@c-creators.co.jp>
>>>>> <9407141246.AA17780@cciss.c-creators.co.jp>
岡田> ところで、ftp.einet.net には、
岡田> -rw-r--r-- 1 root 285153 May 31 20:53 macweb0.98alpha.sea.hqx
岡田> -rw-r--r-- 1 root 285713 Jun 17 15:40 macwebC0.98alpha.sea.hqx
岡田> という２つのバージョンがあったんですが、何が違うんでしょ。
私はちょっと前に macwebC0.98alpha を取ってきて使ってみたんですが、
macwebC0.98alpha は、何もしなくても Shif JIS の漢字が表示できました。
--
今津 英世(いまづ ひでよ) 松下電器 情報通信研究所
From: Ryoichi Hajima <hajima@crimson.gen.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
Real-Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 10:23:37 +0900
Subject: [infotalk,01571] Re: DeleGate1.2.10
Message-Id: <199407150123.KAA12129@tanelorn.gen.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
羽島＠東大です。
In <infotalk:01562>
"MURAYAMA Fumitaka 村山文孝 <umura@nn.solan.chubu.ac.jp> "さん:
><> その後さらに DeleGateから幾つかバグが取れて、現在の版は 1.2.10となり
>
> > RELIABLE=157.110.0.0/@B
>
> として学内からのアクセスに制限をかけようとしているのですが、学
> 外からのアクセスに対して答えてしまいます。どこがいけないのでし
> ょうか？
># ソースを見る限りでは大丈夫なような気もしたのですが・・・。
RESTRICT=all は、入れてますか？
これで３０分程はまった (^_^;
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羽島 良一 東京大学工学部システム量子工学科
Ryoichi Hajima 03-3812-2111 内線 6991